Liftoff with Jeanniey Walden
Nick Cartisano of Evergreen Trading on Media Trade and Turning Trapped Value Into Working Media Dollars
Who’s on this episode
Hosted by Jeanniey Walden, founder and host of Liftoff with Jeanniey Walden.
What you’ll learn
- What media trade, formerly called barter, actually is.
- How Evergreen finds trapped value in distressed and end-of-life assets.
- Why you can recoup full value, not pennies on the dollar, and even take cash.
- Why barter media is the same media your agency would buy.
- How media trade works in tandem with your agency, with no commissions taken.
- The three things to evaluate before freeing up funds for growth.
Episode highlights
- 00:00Meet Nick Cartisano and the fact-or-fiction game
- 00:30What media trade, formerly barter, actually is
- 01:15Finding trapped value in distressed assets
- 02:00Non-working capital into working media dollars
- 02:30Fiction: a tax write-off beats full value
- 02:55Fact: you name your market-value price
- 03:15Fact: you can be paid in real cash
- 03:35Will your agency work with you?
- 04:05Why agencies shouldn’t worry: no commissions, full control
- 04:40The biggest fiction: barter media is lower quality
- 05:05Who you engage first: operators, supply chain, procurement
- 05:45Why marketers should hear about this sooner
- 06:30Reverse-engineering from the marketing side
- 06:50Three things to evaluate before you start
- 08:40Millions in trapped value, almost overnight
Episode summary
At the POSSIBLE conference, Jeanniey turns her conversation with Nick Cartisano, Assistant Vice President of Business Solutions at Evergreen Trading, into a game of fact or fiction about an industry that has worn many names over the years: media trade, media barter, or simply barter. Nick’s own framing is that most people still know it as barter, but he goes to market as media trade, and once he mentions barter, the lightbulb goes on. He calls it his favorite thing in the world because the work is truly creative: Evergreen finds trapped value inside some of the biggest organizations in the world and gives them a mechanism to recoup it and put it toward marketing. Where standard asset-liquidation channels return pennies on the dollar, media trade lets a company recoup full value on assets it would otherwise lose money on, turning non-working capital into working media dollars. He offers a simple example: if you have an end-of-life product, selling it to Evergreen does not obligate you to keep marketing it. The beauty, he says, is taking the value of a product that did not work and putting it toward the products that do.
The fact-or-fiction round sharpens the picture. Fiction: that you make more money by dumping an end-of-life product and taking the tax credit, because working through Evergreen returns full value instead. Fact: that you can name your market-value price, if the product is worth $8 to you, that is what Evergreen pays in value. Fact: that you can be paid in real cash, not only media credit. On agencies, Nick is candid. It is often true that an agency pushes back at first, because a new partner is entering a relationship they have owned for years and they do not yet know Evergreen well. But he stresses that Evergreen works in tandem with the agency and that agencies should not worry, because Evergreen takes no commissions or fees and the agency keeps full control of the plan, pricing, stewardship, KPIs, and strategy while Evergreen simply executes. And the biggest fiction of the day, he says, is that barter media is lower quality. It is the exact same media the agency specifies, because the agency sends the plans and the spots and Evergreen executes them.
Nick explains that his conversations usually begin with chief operators, chief supply chain officers, and procurement, because in this business the asset is the catalyst. Big agencies do not have these asset capabilities or the appetite to take on the risk of a distressed asset that Evergreen will. He describes how a single asset, perhaps a million dollars a company could write off, becomes a repeatable process once it is proven, so that when a bigger need arises, like exiting a warehouse and offloading the building, the company already has a partner and a solution. He came to POSSIBLE, his first time, specifically to reach the media and marketing side, since deals that start with operations or finance often reach a marketer’s desk late, leaving them wondering why they are only now hearing about it. His goal is to reassure marketers that this is real, legitimate, and not lower-quality media, and ideally to start some conversations on the marketing side and reverse-engineer from there. He closes with three things any operator, CFO, or marketer should evaluate before trying to free up funds: take a hard look at the assets on your balance sheet, since many leaders do not realize how much value they give away each year; think through your growth and transformation strategy for the next three years; and consider where the media world is heading in a fast-moving, increasingly digital and programmatic landscape. Then ask the real question, where can you get more value to fund all of it, which is, almost overnight, millions of dollars of trapped value.
Key takeaways
- 00:30 Media trade, formerly called barter, recoups full value from assets a company would otherwise lose money on.
- 01:15 Evergreen finds trapped value in distressed and end-of-life assets and turns non-working capital into working media dollars.
- 02:00 Selling an end-of-life product to Evergreen does not obligate you to keep marketing it; you redirect its value to products that work.
- 02:30 Fiction: dumping a product for the tax credit beats full value. Working through Evergreen returns full value instead.
- 02:55 Fact: you name your market-value price; if a product is worth $8 to you, that is the value Evergreen pays.
- 03:15 Fact: Evergreen can pay in real cash, not only media credit.
- 04:05 Agencies should not worry: Evergreen takes no commissions or fees and the agency keeps full control of plan, pricing, and KPIs.
- 04:40 The biggest myth is that barter media is lower quality; it is the same media the agency specifies and Evergreen executes.
- 05:05 Deals usually start with operators, supply chain, and procurement, because the asset is the catalyst; a first success becomes repeatable.
- 06:50 Before you start, look hard at your balance-sheet assets, plan your next three years, and watch where media is heading, then find the value to fund it.
Questions people ask
Who is Nick Cartisano?
Nick Cartisano is the Assistant Vice President of Business Solutions at Evergreen Trading, where he works on the sales side of the media trade, or barter, business, helping companies convert underused assets into marketing value.
What is Evergreen Trading?
Evergreen Trading is a media trade and corporate barter company. It buys distressed, surplus, or end-of-life assets from large organizations and returns full value in the form of working media dollars, or cash, so companies can put trapped value back toward marketing and growth.
What is media trade or media barter?
Media trade, formerly known as barter, is a way to recoup full value from assets a company would otherwise lose money on. Instead of getting pennies on the dollar through standard liquidation, a company sells the asset to Evergreen and receives full value as working media dollars, turning non-working capital into growth.
Does working with a barter company mean lower-quality media?
No. Nick Cartisano calls this the biggest myth. The media is the same media the agency would buy, because Evergreen works alongside the agency, which specifies the exact plans and spots, and Evergreen simply executes them.
How does media trade work with my existing agency?
Evergreen works in tandem with the agency and does not replace it. The agency keeps full control of the media plan, pricing, and strategy and sets the KPIs, while Evergreen executes the media. Evergreen takes no commissions or fees, so it does not reduce the agency’s compensation.
What three things should a company evaluate before trying media trade?
Nick Cartisano suggests taking a hard look at the assets on your balance sheet, thinking through your growth and transformation strategy for the next three years, and considering where the media world is heading, then asking how to get more value to fund all three.
Full transcript
Jeanniey Walden: I’m back, and I’ve got a mythbusting conversation coming up with Nick.
Nick Cartisano: I love that.
Jeanniey Walden: We’re going to play that game, fact or fiction, and we’re going to talk about the industry you work in, which has had so many names over the years. There was media trade, barter, media barter. Some people say, oh, those awful people, and others say, oh my gosh, those people that saved my company. Tell everybody who’s listening and watching exactly what line of work you’re in.
Nick Cartisano: I am in the media trade, media barter business. Most people know it formerly as barter. Nowadays I go to market as media trade, and people say, what’s that? And I say, well, have you heard of barter? And they say, oh, barter, now I get it. Our business is super creative, and it is my favorite thing in the world. We are literally finding trapped value in companies, some of the biggest organizations in the world. We give them a mechanism to recoup that trapped value and put it toward marketing. We go in and buy these assets, things that companies are going to lose full value on many times. Everyone has asset-liquidation channels, your standard processes, and that’s all well and good, but you’re going to get pennies on the dollar. Media trade has created a mechanism where you can recoup full value from other areas of the organization and put it toward working media dollars. You’re taking non-working capital in one area and turning it into a working media dollar, growth for the future of the organization. I was having a conversation recently and someone said, I have this product, it’s end of life, if I sell it to you, do I then have to market that product? Absolutely not. The beauty is that you take a product that didn’t work and put its value toward products that do work, so you can make them work even better. In short, our industry takes these non-working capital assets, hard assets in the supply chain, things companies are losing money on, and turns them into media value, recouping full dollar back to the bottom line.
Jeanniey Walden: So we’re going to play a game. Fact or fiction.
Nick Cartisano: Do it.
Jeanniey Walden: I’m a CMO, advisor, and business executive, so I’ve been on the buying side and the advertising side. I’m going to ask you a bunch of questions. Fact or fiction: I can make more money from my end-of-life product if I just get rid of it and take the tax credit.
Nick Cartisano: Fiction.
Jeanniey Walden: Why?
Nick Cartisano: Because you’re getting full value on that product by working through Evergreen.
Jeanniey Walden: Fact or fiction: I can name my price, my market-value price. If I’ve got an end-of-life product and I’m selling it for $8, are you going to give me $8 in media credit for it, or $2?
Nick Cartisano: I’m going to give you whatever you’re looking to achieve. If your market value is $8 and you say, Nick, I would like to receive $8 in value back on this, I’m going to pay you $8 for that product.
Jeanniey Walden: Fact or fiction: you give me real cash.
Nick Cartisano: Fact. We absolutely can pay in cash, 100%. The cash portion is much different than paying with a media credit, but it’s an absolute fact, you can be paid in cash.
Jeanniey Walden: Fact or fiction: I’ve got a media credit and my agency will not work with me.
Nick Cartisano: Many times, that’s fact. Agencies like to push back. It’s natural, you’re adding a new partner into a sandbox they’ve been working in with the client for many years. It can be new to people, and many times the agency doesn’t know us as deeply as they know their client. So many times it is fact, the agency gets hesitant, and I understand why. But I’ll tell you another fact: we work in tandem with the agency.
Jeanniey Walden: So give me the fiction on why an agency shouldn’t be concerned.
Nick Cartisano: An agency should not be concerned because we don’t take commissions and fees for our business. We’re not taking away any financial benefit they’d get as an agency from the client. Additionally, the agency still has full control over the entire media plan and campaign. When we come into the fold, the agency still prices, plans, and stewards the entire process. They give us the KPIs, they give us the strategy. We’re simply executing the media on behalf of the client, but working with the agency to do so.
Jeanniey Walden: Fact or fiction: the media you buy is lower quality than the media the agency would provide.
Nick Cartisano: That’s the biggest fiction of the day right there. It is the same media, and it goes back to us working alongside the agency. The agency is literally telling us, this is the media we want, these are the spots, they send us the plans, and we say, yes, we can execute this. Our media is exactly what your agency would be executing for you, irrespective of our involvement.
Jeanniey Walden: So who is the typical first person you engage with for media trade?
Nick Cartisano: Great question. On the sales side of the business, I’m looking to engage chief operators, chief supply chain officers, and procurement officers, because in our business the asset is the catalyst to make these partnerships happen and succeed. Companies have their media agencies, and we’re not looking to come in and replace your agency, but big agencies don’t have these asset capabilities and don’t necessarily have the willingness to take on the risk of buying a distressed asset that Evergreen does. So when we come in, we work with the agency. I go to chief operators and chief supply chain, find an asset, and build a business case. It might be one asset, only a million dollars, something you could write off. But over the next year, you could have $10 million of assets. If it works once and we test it, it becomes repeatable the next time. So when you have a bigger issue internally, like getting out of a warehouse and needing to offload that building, you come to Evergreen and say, I have a solution, I have a partner. We’re like the greatest tool you can have in your toolkit whenever you’re ready to use it. Once we’re partnered with our clients and their agencies, it’s a repeatable process to keep stacking on top and growing together. So chief operators and chief supply chain, that’s where it begins. But I came to an event like POSSIBLE, my first time here, to speak to the media side of the brand world. A lot of my conversations start on the other side of the business, and by the time this hits a marketer’s desk, they’re probably questioning why they’re just seeing it for the first time. A lot of what I’m doing is dispelling those concerns. Marketers are not always responsible for the P&L on product or inventory, and they don’t always know where there could be trapped value in the organization. So if I can come down here and communicate with marketers and the executive side of the brand world, it helps clarify that this is real, it’s legitimate, and it’s absolutely not lower-quality media. It’s a good way for us to start engaging more with the marketing side, so we don’t always have to go to a chief operator first. I would love to go to a chief marketer first and just ask, what do you have going on, what are your marketing needs this year? And then maybe I can build a business case on the marketing side, go find an asset, and do it that way.
Jeanniey Walden: Reverse-engineer it.
Nick Cartisano: Exactly.
Jeanniey Walden: This has been a fantastic conversation. Last question: if somebody inside the business, a procurement officer, marketing officer, or CFO, is thinking about how they can free up more funds to invest in the growth of their business, what are three things they should look at when deciding if working with a company like yours makes sense?
Nick Cartisano: One, take a very hard look at what assets you have on your balance sheet. Really look into it. Am I getting out of real estate properties? Do I have capital equipment? For franchisee-model retailers, do I have fixtures in my stores? Do I want to update my stores? Above all else, take a hard look at what is on your balance sheet, because so many times, even when we have these conversations, people say, well, I don’t even know what assets I have. Take a hard look, because you don’t know how much value you’re truly giving away every year. Two, think about your growth strategy. What do the next three years of your business look like? Where are you trying to transform and evolve? Lately, a strong area of success for me has been talking to transformation teams, whose job is to do these large corporate transformations. I can come in and say, you know that rebrand that didn’t go too well? Here’s how I can help. Take a hard look at your growth strategy for the next three years: who do you want to be, where do you want to go? Three, think about where the media world is evolving. The media world is changing every single day right now, it’s insane, and it’s so cool. You see all the different ad tech, the digital and programmatic platforms, the social capabilities. That’s where the world is moving. We’re living in a digital age, everything we do is on the phone or the computer, and eyeballs are mostly on a phone or a computer right now. So think about where you want to be as a business, how you want to modernize, and when you think about those three things, ask how you can get more value to do that. When your budget is getting squeezed, where can you get more value? A company like Evergreen.
Jeanniey Walden: Magic access to more funds.
Nick Cartisano: Exactly. Almost overnight, I can give you millions of dollars of trapped value, is what I like to say.
Jeanniey Walden: Well, Nick, thank you so much for being on Liftoff.
Nick Cartisano: Thank you, Jeanniey.
Jeanniey Walden: All right, everybody. We had some fun with that one. Stay tuned, we’ll be back with more experts.
This conversation was recorded for Liftoff with Jeanniey Walden and lightly edited for readability.
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